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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gthunder View Post
    I don't know why everyone is so down on OKC not being a contender again. I just don't think KD was that much of a difference maker in this team. I still believe we are one player away from being a contender again.
    What one player are they going to get to become a contender again? What player that they can realistically acquire will replace a top 5 player? He was so little of a difference maker that OKC is 15-11 this year when they won 24 games before losing #11 last year. They are currently the SEVENTH team in the conference. I guess they just need to plug in Abrines and they'll be fine because the guy they lost wasn't much of a difference maker. Guys that shoot 50/40/90 at high volume must grow on trees in that video game you play, but in the real world they are special players that make a HUGE difference.

  2. #17
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    This revisionist history on KD's impact is laughable. Dude is the second best player in the NBA and has been for the last 5 years.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder in NY View Post
    This revisionist history on KD's impact is laughable. Dude is the second best player in the NBA and has been for the last 5 years.
    I'm not sure he is a better all around player than Russ, and I say that in all seriousness. If Russ left and KD stayed this team wouldn't be any better than it is right now with this cast.

    That said, KD is obviously a huge loss that we can't possibly replace. Yes, we are one player away, but it is an all star type player, 1st team all star too not some barely made it all star.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizz Fastfists View Post
    Do you know something I don't about those negotiations like the actual figures? Unless Presti was offering him something like $15M/yr there was no upside to signing early. Roberson can't hurt his value by repeating last season, which is basically what he is doing. However, if he'd come out and hit 35% from 3 he'd have been in line for a big contract. If I were Roberson's agent I would have advised him against signing this past off-season.

    I'd keep him because is the type of player that every team needs. He's a defender that can drastically reduce the impact of the opposing team's top guard/wing. He's not going to be expensive to retain. He has playoff experience and help teach the younger players about playoff intensity before they get there. He and Adams would be to the new kids like Collison and Perkins were for KD, Ibaka and Russ.
    I would guess that whatever he turned down, he'll get offered more on the open market and Presti obviously won't want to pay it. No way to really know though, we'll see.

    I still think his offense is hurting us a lot. Without a guy like Russ that can beat teams four on five sometimes, he would hurt the team even more. Having Russ is the only reason he is able to play as much as he does. If we trade Russ, yikes, it would be brutal with Andre on the floor IMO.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjthunder View Post
    I'm not sure he is a better all around player than Russ, and I say that in all seriousness. If Russ left and KD stayed this team wouldn't be any better than it is right now with this cast.
    While I will say that is a very valid argument we had one of them leave! Does it really matter which one? Last year they had two of the top five players in the world and arguably two of the three. To go and say that losing a player like that and replacing them with Abrines drastically changes the win projection and ability to win in the playoffs. LeBron leaves the Heat, but they retain Wade and Bosh, and they go from the Finals to missing the playoffs. The impact one player has in the NBA is much more drastic than any other sport. When 40% of your starting lineup would be the best player on all but one other team that is a HUGE advantage. That covers a lot of deficiencies other players might have like a stud defender who is offensively challenged be that Perkins or Roberson. A lack of a quality backup PG and SF because you only need to cover those spots for 10 minutes a night in the playoffs.

    This really wouldn't be any different if Russ had been the one to leave. It would have still knocked OKC out of contender status. The point is not and never has been Russ vs kd. It has always been that when you lose one of those players OKC goes from contender to pretender. It doesn't take anything away from Russ to say the team is no longer a contender. If Russ were not a top 5 player OKC wouldn't even be looking for a playoff exit because they wouldn't get there. Look at the Knicks with 'Melo and NOLA with Anthony Davis these are great players that I don't think could carry OKC to the playoffs like Russ will. However, the goal should never be to make the playoffs. It should be to win championships. As much as it sucks we all need to accept that OKC will not win a championship with Russ.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizz Fastfists View Post
    While I will say that is a very valid argument we had one of them leave! Does it really matter which one? Last year they had two of the top five players in the world and arguably two of the three. To go and say that losing a player like that and replacing them with Abrines drastically changes the win projection and ability to win in the playoffs.
    I certainly wasn't trying to say that, sorry for confusion.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizz Fastfists View Post
    What one player are they going to get to become a contender again? What player that they can realistically acquire will replace a top 5 player? He was so little of a difference maker that OKC is 15-11 this year when they won 24 games before losing #11 last year. They are currently the SEVENTH team in the conference. I guess they just need to plug in Abrines and they'll be fine because the guy they lost wasn't much of a difference maker. Guys that shoot 50/40/90 at high volume must grow on trees in that video game you play, but in the real world they are special players that make a HUGE difference.
    It would take an all star i grant you that... but why do you think they would be able to gut the team, trade your guaranteed top 5 player in Russ and think that in 3/5 years your going to get another 2 top 5 players and be a contender again?? If you can guarantee that then you are in the wrong business and need to be a NBA GM or vegas odds better because i can assure you the KD/Russ/JH development is something that happens once in a lifetime.

    So... your suggestion.. give up your top 5 player that the fanbase LOVES.. to start over at some hope of becoming better than every other team in the NBA in 3/5 years.. mmkay... I'm sure that goes over well for all the season ticket holders to know that Russ is no longer on the team you just traded him for picks and development players.. Right...

    On the other hand.. you have a squad that lost an all star player.. so.. you try to get another one to replace him and see how you do.. Unless you think that the Serge trade was a bad deal and Dion Waiters was better than Dipo? We should be a better team than last year minus KD. I know there's a few of you guys that think "rebuild rebuild rebuild" is the only way to go.. I guess it depends on your measurement of success. If you think making a good playoff run is a complete failure then i'm sorry you have been let down year after year.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder in NY View Post
    This revisionist history on KD's impact is laughable. Dude is the second best player in the NBA and has been for the last 5 years.
    He hasn't been the 2nd best player since his injury in OKC.. He was passed up last year by other players and will be this year too. And sorry but 2nd best players in the NBA don't bail on the team that should have won the title because they are good enough to get it done.. He knows he's not the best player that's why he had to go ride the coat tails of a team that didn't need him. Give me a break.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjthunder View Post
    I'm not sure he is a better all around player than Russ, and I say that in all seriousness. If Russ left and KD stayed this team wouldn't be any better than it is right now with this cast.

    That said, KD is obviously a huge loss that we can't possibly replace. Yes, we are one player away, but it is an all star type player, 1st team all star too not some barely made it all star.
    Exactly i would argue.. by a LOT that we would be WORSE off with KD and no Russ.. Russ makes everyone around him better by 10 fold. KD just makes himself better by playing iso ball.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizz Fastfists View Post
    While I will say that is a very valid argument we had one of them leave! Does it really matter which one? Last year they had two of the top five players in the world and arguably two of the three. To go and say that losing a player like that and replacing them with Abrines drastically changes the win projection and ability to win in the playoffs. LeBron leaves the Heat, but they retain Wade and Bosh, and they go from the Finals to missing the playoffs. The impact one player has in the NBA is much more drastic than any other sport. When 40% of your starting lineup would be the best player on all but one other team that is a HUGE advantage. That covers a lot of deficiencies other players might have like a stud defender who is offensively challenged be that Perkins or Roberson. A lack of a quality backup PG and SF because you only need to cover those spots for 10 minutes a night in the playoffs.

    This really wouldn't be any different if Russ had been the one to leave. It would have still knocked OKC out of contender status. The point is not and never has been Russ vs kd. It has always been that when you lose one of those players OKC goes from contender to pretender. It doesn't take anything away from Russ to say the team is no longer a contender. If Russ were not a top 5 player OKC wouldn't even be looking for a playoff exit because they wouldn't get there. Look at the Knicks with 'Melo and NOLA with Anthony Davis these are great players that I don't think could carry OKC to the playoffs like Russ will. However, the goal should never be to make the playoffs. It should be to win championships. As much as it sucks we all need to accept that OKC will not win a championship with Russ.
    And you are making an argument for what??? To blow up the team and think that somehow you are miraculously going to get 2 more top 5 players at some point? How many teams do you think has tried to do that in the past? Blow up the team..start over and rebuild.. and 3/5 years go by and they don't even have a top 5 player much less 2 of them.. We have one right now in Russ.. One of the most dynamic players in the NBA that is keeping OKC in the spotlight.. That to me is more valuable than blowing up the team for nothing for 3/5 years... THere are times to blow up a team and start over and there are times not to do that.. WHen you have a top 5 player who just showed some loyalty to the franchise.. YOu have a fanbase that LOVES him and what he's doing on the court. You can't just say.. aw hell with it we aren't going to win anyways so lets just blow it all up and start over... Just not happening..\

    The best hope is that we continue to play strong and develop players.. See where we are closer to the deadline next year and maybe Presti can make a move to improve the team.. If not you make a good showing in the playoffs and you see what comes of the off season.. A lot of things can happen in the off season.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gthunder View Post
    He hasn't been the 2nd best player since his injury in OKC.. He was passed up last year by other players and will be this year too. And sorry but 2nd best players in the NBA don't bail on the team that should have won the title because they are good enough to get it done.. He knows he's not the best player that's why he had to go ride the coat tails of a team that didn't need him. Give me a break.
    He wanted to play with a team that actually embraces ball movement. Not one man domination of the ball that breaks down because its much easier to defend stationary targets.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder in NY View Post
    He wanted to play with a team that actually embraces ball movement. Not one man domination of the ball that breaks down because its much easier to defend stationary targets.
    LOL, ok.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjthunder View Post
    LOL, ok.
    Legitimate question. How much basketball you all watch outside of Thunder games?

    The comparison of the quality of offense is stark even in comparison to a team like the Bucks/Nuggets. The warriors are on a whole other level above that.

    Westbrook is a once in a lifetime individual talent. But within the confines of a team game, which is what basketball is, Westbrook is not as great as people prop him up to be.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder in NY View Post
    Legitimate question. How much basketball you all watch outside of Thunder games?

    The comparison of the quality of offense is stark even in comparison to a team like the Bucks/Nuggets. The warriors are on a whole other level above that.

    Westbrook is a once in a lifetime individual talent. But within the confines of a team game, which is what basketball is, Westbrook is not as great as people prop him up to be.
    I have League Pass and watch plenty and have for years. I grew up a Bullets fan as a kid since I was from Baltimore. I joined the Air Force, retired, and wound up in OKC the same year the Thunder moved here. I've been a season ticket holder from Day 1. Westbrook does the best he can with what is around him. KD was as much to blame as Russ was for our failure in the Golden State series, probably more so.

    I don't blame KD that much. He went for a team that could contend to a better team that is almost a sure lock to win the title. I just think it showed what he truly is, a guy that doesn't really have that fire in him. That isn't a knock. Some guys have it (Russ, LeBron, Curry, Wade to name a few currently), some don't (KD, Dwight Howard, etc). Durant couldn't handle failing with the spotlight on him so he ran away to where he doesn't have to be the man. You didn't see MJ or Kobe running away or going to pretty offenses with lots of ball movement. They had the desire and the belief to be leaders on court and off. KD---not so much.

  15. #30
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    Those bull and Laker teams were brilliant ball movement teams that played selfless basketball.

    As much as KDs performance in 5/6/7 left much to be desired he played flawless basketball the first 4 games.

    I get thunder fans want to prop Westbrook up and shoot KD down. Lots of reasons to do it but let's not rewrite history now.

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