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  1. #31
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    Jul 2017
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    Sundays lol. Only tourists. And citizens who can’t make it down during the week. And Thunder games. And other events. Lots of events. And soon to be convention center. And city park.

    And length of track so what. If you want it to work you have to give it a nudge to break habits. And again, no medical. Imagine all the visitors in medical with someone in care looking for something to go do for a few hours or to eat. Gotta drive over.

    And you have not addressed how traffic is gonna get out of the way during max car time which is 3 periods per day and about 6 hours.

    I hope it works but see failure written all over it. Could have spent money on bus type trollies and covered same routes for $180,000,000 less, with easy route changes or expansion. This thing is stuck on its route no matter what unless you spend mega bucks.

    What are the hours?

  2. #32
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    Oct 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderVike View Post
    Has anyone been downtown during lunch? For over 2 hours the streets are packed with cars. So, even if streetcar has right of way what happens when traffic ahead is stopped? Nowhere for cars to go to get out of way. Lights on red then what? I see many issues with this. Of course the streetcar is supposed to rid of more cars but the medical district alone has mass cars going over for lunch. Its gonna be an issue. And I expect low ridership. They should have made it free for the first few years. As much as is spent if it fails that will mean voters lose trust in leaders making correct decisions for long term viability of many projects yet to be announced or proposed. MAPS has been a win but a big failure will hurt.
    You're kind of missing the point. lol. See, with a street car people will ride it INSTEAD of driving and parking downtown. The streetcar will not be a failure. It's simple mindedness and negativity like your mentality that has kept OKC from growing all these decades.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzechM8 View Post
    You're kind of missing the point. lol. See, with a street car people will ride it INSTEAD of driving and parking downtown. The streetcar will not be a failure. It's simple mindedness and negativity like your mentality that has kept OKC from growing all these decades.
    How can you state that when several times I have stated “I want it to work”. Predicting its failure does not mean I want it to fail. I think most sane people can distinguish the difference. And again, I am pointing out deficiencies from my point of view.

    For instance, how can a person in medical district use it? They can’t so will drive. That is one example of questions I bring up. Another is cost in collecting and making people pay. I think they should have grandfathered it to help it work. How is that simple minded? And another is how will this thing move thru busy traffic for those 6 hours per day peak driving times? Its easier to call someone simple minded then to answer questions. Most workers come from away from downtown. So the tram cannot get rid of peak hour traffic.

    I think its good to allow citizens who are paying for this to question it as well. We shoild never just rubber stamp massive spending solely because MAPS 1 was such a success. I’ve worked in the downtown area for 20 years so have a lot of vested interest in it working. I love how its transformed over that time. But this one issue I have many concerns.

    I guess its easier to call names than to have dialogue.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Oklahoma City, OK; Farm: Hannibal Harlin Estates, Jones Prairie, TX
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    Here are some articles about the streetcar; nothing has been set in stone:


    The 4.9-mile D Line will traverse the central business district, linking Midtown and Bricktown.
    Dubbed the B Line, the 2-mile Bricktown loop will link Bricktown and the convention center district.


    Plans are for the vast majority of service hours to the devoted to the D Line. Streetcars are to run from 6 a.m. to midnight Monday through Thursday and 6 a.m. to 2 a.m. Friday and Saturday.

    On the B Line, regular service will be 6 a.m. to 2 a.m. Friday and Saturday.
    Oklahoma City streetcar contract approved with minimal Sunday service: http://m.newsok.com/oklahoma-city-st...5551449http://

    The MAPS3 streetcar project continues to make progress downtown.

    If you drive between Midtown and Bricktown, you've surely noticed construction on the tracks.

    By this time next year, the trolleys should be cruising down Broadway and Robinson.
    Oklahoma City considers pedestrian safety ahead of streetcar installation: http://kfor.com/2017/12/14/okc-consi...-installation/

    By comparison, the consultants' report said Cincinnati charges $1 for a two-hour pass. Detroit charges $1.50 for a three-hour pass.

    Riders in Portland get two-and-a-half hours for $2.

    Single rides vary from $1 in Atlanta to $1.50 in Tucson, $2.25 in Seattle and $2.50 in Tampa.
    $1 fare recommended for Oklahoma City streetcar: http://newsok.com/1-fare-recommended...rticle/5576091

    And if all goes as planned, passenger service will begin by late 2018. Two routes traveling 6.9 miles will link Bricktown, Automobile Alley, Midtown, the Central Business District and the area known as Core to Shore.
    Oklahoma City's streetcar story is all about development: http://newsok.com/article/5480157

    The 4.6-mile main line will serve the central business district, Midtown, Bricktown and Automobile Alley. By doubling up on some parts of the route, the main line and Bricktown loop will create 6.9 miles of what consultants call "service track."

    David Todd, MAPS 3 program director, said the project is being coordinated to impede only in short segments and to limit obstruction to businesses.
    Streetcar work begins in Bricktown: http://newsok.com/article/5534815

    OKC Considers Driverless Streetcars: http://www.news9.com/story/36522608/...ess-streetcars

    Hope this will answer most questions; OKC will have to tweak the system once it gets into operational mode. Plans to add a stoplight at N.W. 8th Street to slow traffic between N.W. 10th and N.W. 4th. The Bricktown Line will be the key to how they tweak and trouble shot the system because it will have the most challenges for pedestrian & vehicle traffic.
    "It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." Charles Darwin

    "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

  5. #35
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    Jul 2017
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    Laramie, thanks for all the links and pics and info. Regardless my sentiments you posted some good stuff.

    As for fares, to me the cost is cheap. I will have no issue spending the money on fares. I think some others will have fundamental issues paying. Some of the core workers will use this a lot. I think thats a limited market though. Out of area like medical can’t and won’t.

    I am still confused how traffic works with the tram. If I’m at a light and stopped and have 8 cars ahead of me and 2 behind - and I see in my mirror the team is coming - what can I do? Meaning what can the tram do? Also the train backs traffic up too, and will interfere when that happens (if cars are piled up going east then those on broadway wanting to turn east are stuck. Lots of driving issues. I think since we are so late to the party our roads were never made to coexist with trams. So its a tighter fit than other cities?

    Time will tell.

  6. #36
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    Jul 2010
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    Oklahoma City, OK; Farm: Hannibal Harlin Estates, Jones Prairie, TX
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    Oklahoma City original streetcar route in the 1930s


    Just curious as to how they dealt with street congestion in the 1930s as they had 10 times more rail track than what's proposed today.


    An extensive urban streetcar system once provided Oklahoma City residents & visitors with relatively fast, emissions-free electric transport.
    "It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." Charles Darwin

    "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

  7. #37
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    Oklahoma City, OK; Farm: Hannibal Harlin Estates, Jones Prairie, TX
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    Streetcar construction causes hardships, optimism for city...

    "I think the proof also is in what other cities have done," Todd said. "The development that other cities have seen with the same kind of streetcar system. The development that happens along those routes."


    Construction for the new Oklahoma City streetcar downtown is impossible to miss. It has meant several road closures along the route, making it harder to get through downtown.--Fox25News--by William Maetzold http://okcfox.com/news/local/streetc...imism-for-city
    "It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." Charles Darwin

    "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

  8. #38
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    Jul 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laramie View Post
    Oklahoma City original streetcar route in the 1930s


    Just curious as to how they dealt with street congestion in the 1930s as they had 10 times more rail track than what's proposed today.


    An extensive urban streetcar system once provided Oklahoma City residents & visitors with relatively fast, emissions-free electric transport.
    There was not nearly the traffic back then. Of course it was not as populated but most households had only 1 car vs 2 now. And lots had none.

    Plus the fact we had it and it ended is telling. If so great why was it ended?

    Cool pics though. Too bad we ended it could have saved a ton. And I would venture roads were bigger since nothing was crowded in like now

  9. #39
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    Have no idea why the early streetcar system was abandoned other than operational & maintenance costs, the city continued to grow & expand in areas the streetcar couldn't reach. Remember, the relaunch of the streetcar is a novelty for Downtown, Bricktown & Midtown to target tourists. The old rubber trolley vintage buses did little to enhance growth along those routes; whereas the streetcar routes will be more permanent.

    We need to remember that MAPS funds are for capital improvements; therefore either the city will have to pay for operational costs or a fee or fare will have to be collected for ridership.

    You mentioned Kansas City's 2.2 mile streetcar which by the time you get boarded and lean back, it's time to depart the streetcar for your destination; unless you're riding just to be riding. We have this concern with Embark (free bus passes) where sometimes homeless stay on the bus nearly all day. You wouldn't want this with the streetcar especially since it will cater to tourists.

    How is the KC Streetcar Funded?: http://kcstreetcar.org/faq/kc-streetcar-funded/

    OKC's 6.9 mile streetcar system wants to encourage development along the route; not have the development businesses along the route pay a fee for free ridership. Would suggest that free ridership tokens could be given out to larger group to stimulate the convention business for those attendees who may want to have lunch or dinner along any of those routes.

    Agree, expand the streetcar to the OU Health Sciences Center should be a priority and the Meridian Hotel corridor. There are a lot of conventions in that area (OUHSC) now with the 194 room Embassy Suites.

    "It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." Charles Darwin

    "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

  10. #40
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    Jul 2017
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    222
    You bring up some good points. However the route we used is developed or is planned to. So no net gain on that. Its just riders brought to venues. I can see the homeless issue. There are ways to deal with that but I don’t want to broach that complete topic now, so will concede that point.

    Getting tourists is planned into it. But to make it viable and long term you need citizens to vest in consistently and thats my concern. I don’t think they will, and think it will fail. It may take 4-5 years but I see many issues I already described.

    One other point is Bricktown is mostly saturated at this time. So the new popular places are going just west of downtown. But this doesn’t go there. So as masses of people start to head west so to speak you coild end up with a less than ideal route. Yes, we can add a spur but at the cost it will take that has potential to get citizens riled up. I could see a lot of contention once a new ask is made, about poor future planning. I recall Dallas went theough phases (still are) where districts cane in hot and then 5 years later the crowds left for the newest hot spots. We will still have a lot always going on in downtown but the newest area is now west. If someone wants to go to Jones Assembly or the other new places, can’t get there on the tram. And if we add in medical district next that locks out west of downtown. So we have to hope enough people (not tourists) keep using older Bricktown establishments to keep this tram viable.

    Time will tell.

  11. #41
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    Oklahoma City, OK; Farm: Hannibal Harlin Estates, Jones Prairie, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderVike View Post
    ...Getting tourists is planned into it. But to make it viable and long term you need citizens to vest in consistently and thats my concern. I don’t think they will, and think it will fail. It may take 4-5 years but I see many issues I already described.

    One other point is Bricktown is mostly saturated at this time.
    So the new popular places are going just west of downtown. But this doesn’t go there. So as masses of people start to head west so to speak you coild end up with a less than ideal route. Yes, we can add a spur but at the cost it will take that has potential to get citizens riled up. I could see a lot of contention once a new ask is made, about poor future planning.

    ...We will still have a lot always going on in downtown but the newest area is now west. If someone wants to go to Jones Assembly or the other new places, can’t get there on the tram. And if we add in medical district next that locks out west of downtown. So we have to hope enough people (not tourists) keep using older Bricktown establishments to keep this tram viable.

    Time will tell.


    Awesome, you pointed out a missed opportunity; light rail track expansion to extend the streetcar with a spur to film row. Shouldn't take but a few million.

    “We are beyond excited and couldn't be happier,” Colton said. “The response for lunch to dinner to happy hour to brunch and our concerts is at full capacity.”

    ...The Jones Assembly and the neighboring 21c Museum Hotel are at the heart of a dramatic transformation underway along the west fringe of downtown. In just a matter of months, a four-story building consisting of retail, apartments and structured parking has risen up to the east of The Jones Assembly.



    the RESIDENCES at 21c

    Film row: New bars & restaurants near Jones Assembly, another OKC entertainment district?

    Film row: A missed opportunity for the streetcar?

    Residences, retail rise up in Film Row west of downtown OKC: http://newsok.com/residences-retail-...rticle/5561573
    "It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." Charles Darwin

    "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

  12. #42
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    Oklahoma City, OK; Farm: Hannibal Harlin Estates, Jones Prairie, TX
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    West Village Apartments construction near 21c & Jones Assembly on Film row (via OKCTalk).


    A potential oasis for the streetcar route?
    "It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." Charles Darwin

    "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

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