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Thread: Still early?

  1. #1
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    I'm almost done with the whole "it's still early" argument for our Thunder. We aren't losing only due to lack chemistry...we are losing due to bad offense and lack of a **** to give in the second half. PG is playing BAD. Russ is playing VERY BAD. Billy Donovan isn't in control of this team and it shows. At this rate we are lucky to get a 7th or 8th seed. I'm not giving up yet....but I don't see our wicked bad offense getting much better.

  2. #2
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    FIRE BILLY if we lose to a shorthanded Clippers tomorrow.
    He better turn **** around
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterJohnsonOK View Post
    I was injured several times in my late teens from trying to re-inact ****os

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clangus View Post
    FIRE BILLY if we lose to a shorthanded Clippers tomorrow.
    He better turn **** around
    I don't think Donovan gets fired during the season. If they end up in the lottery then he might get let go in the off-season. I wanted Donovan gone last off-season. It is still early and they aren't much worse then I expected at this point. The bigger question is when does Presti decide to start trading players for picks/prospects? When they are still under .500 in December? Would Cleveland give up the Brooklyn pick for PG? They shouldn't, but would they be dumb enough to do it? Can they get anything for Melo or has he finally proven to be a team killer enough that no one would want him? I would say Russ could use his leverage to force a coaching change, but by signing the extension instead of waiting he gave away his leverage.

  4. #4
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    Their offense is so bad most of the time, the rotations are confusing (to me anyways), and they play hard some of the time...sadly, I feel the bulk of this problem lies with Coach Billy. I would not be surprised if Presti makes a change, as they should be jelling by now, and they are not.
    When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slyke5 View Post
    I would not be surprised if Presti makes a change, as they should be jelling by now, and they are not.
    What are you basing that on? It took LeBron/Wade/Bosh to the all-star break to get it together and they were still being talked about as disappointing on their way to the Finals because they were "only" the 2 seed. The massive amount of iso after the first quarter means that either they listen to Donovan and do their own thing after his pre-game script runs out or that Donovan only instructs them for the early part of the game then lets them do whatever they want. Either way I will completely agree Donovan is a big problem and needs to go. I'm just not sure that really helps anything. I think Russ is basically the coach and he loves his iso ball.

    I believe that if Russ cared enough about a championship he would not have signed the extension until Presti replaced Donovan so he would have a chance at one. Instead Russ signed away his leverage to force improvement to the roster and coaching staff. I think the team would be better without Melo. Every team Melo has ever been on has failed to meet expectations. At some point that has to be about him hurting his teams. Melo didn't along with George Karl or Phil Jackson and that says a lot given what those two accomplished and the other players they worked with.

  6. #6
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    The comparison to the Heat is getting old.. They are not the same team, not the same players.. They don't have a player like LBJ and they don't have a coach that seems to be able to connect to the players... If they don't get it together really soon then it's over they aren't going to overcome a huge deficit without some real leadership.

    So right now they are in a world of pick up ball at the park style of play. Russ doesn't love his iso he just reverts back to it because it's the only thing that is working once things don't go right and Billy doesn't have any answers or adjustments to well coached teams so he's fine to let it happen.

    Russ does care about a championship that's crazy to say he doesn't and it's not his job to evaluate the coach. Presti should be evaluating the coach and if there is a need for a change he should make it. Sitting back and doing nothing isn't going to help but make for a very long disappointing season and the morale will be in the dumpsters like it is now. The record is not to the point they can't overcome it but it's getting worse and the attitudes are going to get worse and grow like a cancer if they keep losing.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by gthunder View Post
    The comparison to the Heat is getting old.. They are not the same team, not the same players.. They don't have a player like LBJ and they don't have a coach that seems to be able to connect to the players... If they don't get it together really soon then it's over they aren't going to overcome a huge deficit without some real leadership.

    So right now they are in a world of pick up ball at the park style of play. Russ doesn't love his iso he just reverts back to it because it's the only thing that is working once things don't go right and Billy doesn't have any answers or adjustments to well coached teams so he's fine to let it happen.

    Russ does care about a championship that's crazy to say he doesn't and it's not his job to evaluate the coach. Presti should be evaluating the coach and if there is a need for a change he should make it. Sitting back and doing nothing isn't going to help but make for a very long disappointing season and the morale will be in the dumpsters like it is now. The record is not to the point they can't overcome it but it's getting worse and the attitudes are going to get worse and grow like a cancer if they keep losing.
    Gotta remember gt that in 2011 Lebron wasn't Lebron yet if that makes sense. Sure, in hindsight, we say "well, they had Lebron." But at the time there were MAJOR questions about whether or not Lebron could lead a team and whether or not the Heat were going to be a failure. November that year was very rough for them-- again, they lost all of their road games that month and they had trouble scoring. And that year didn't even end well for Miami. They got going late and had a decent run in the East playoffs, but Dirk TOTALLY outplayed Lebron in the Finals where Lebron really wilted and the Heat lost. The narrative that entire off season was would Lebron ever win and could the Heat get over the top. And then they were inches away from losing to Boston in the East Finals before it all clicked for Lebron and he turned the corner for good (unfortunately for Thunder fans). Point being, it takes time-- even for stars.

  8. #8
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    They just had a meeting after the loss. If they continue to suck and disappoint then a change will be made.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleese View Post
    Gotta remember gt that in 2011 Lebron wasn't Lebron yet if that makes sense. Sure, in hindsight, we say "well, they had Lebron." But at the time there were MAJOR questions about whether or not Lebron could lead a team and whether or not the Heat were going to be a failure. November that year was very rough for them-- again, they lost all of their road games that month and they had trouble scoring. And that year didn't even end well for Miami. They got going late and had a decent run in the East playoffs, but Dirk TOTALLY outplayed Lebron in the Finals where Lebron really wilted and the Heat lost. The narrative that entire off season was would Lebron ever win and could the Heat get over the top. And then they were inches away from losing to Boston in the East Finals before it all clicked for Lebron and he turned the corner for good (unfortunately for Thunder fans). Point being, it takes time-- even for stars.
    SMH man i love your optimism and comparison's but the situations are so different but yet at the same time you realize that if we duplicate what the HEAT did in 2011 that PG and Melo will move on because of the disappointment. If you are ok with that then keep on going the way it's going..

    They don't have the time for these guys to build chemistry like the Heat did.. Maybe it's not possible they can get any better this year I don't know.. but i know just sitting there watching it happen without doing something is just a bad move.. It's bad for the fans, it's bad for the team and it's franchise player Russ and it's bad for the investment they made into this year.. They have to show signs of IMPROVING or they've gone off the track.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by m-rich212 View Post
    They just had a meeting after the loss. If they continue to suck and disappoint then a change will be made.
    They needed to and it sounds like it was positive. Melo is exactly right they need to be held accountable in a season where the expectations are what they are.. Maybe the up front honesty will bring a positive change. Something sure needs to happen.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...-losing-streak

  11. #11
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    Not worried as yet. They are what 10 games in to the season which is something like 12% in to the season, its like giving up in a game of bball about 5 minutes in to the 1st quarter if you are behind by 5 points.

    All they need to do is having it figured out by end of the season and be in the playoffs, from there you roll the dice but the players on the team are good enough to stay with anyone.

  12. #12
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    I wish I could share the optimism, but we should be beating most of these teams on sheer talent alone. It almost looks as if we are throwing games. Still time to get it together of course, but that window is going to start closing fast these days. They are going to need every win they can get when it comes playoff time.

  13. #13
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    A couple of thoughts I have so far, with the team beeing 6-7:

    - Every expert says that its not easy to figure things out with 3 star players coming together and I believe that. I also think, that there is an ideal style of play and ideal shot distribution for each team. This team can only be really good if Melo is their 3rd best scorer, gets the 3rd most shots on the team. He should be limited to mostly catch and shoot 3s, some iso plays where the 1st and 2nd play gets broken up and the shotclock is running down and you have to "force" up a decent shot, plus some go to plays where he is purely with the bench unit on the floor. Realistically that should put him on around 18 pts/game on a better shooting % than he has now.

    - Abrines is the real key to OKCs success and I dont know why most people dont see it. Roberson neutralizes any advantage that we have on the offensive end with our star players. He is a superb defensive guy, but he doesnt fit in this starting five really. Plus, Abrines NEEDS to play with the starters in order to be successful. He is not a go to guy, he is mainly a catch and shoot 3pt specialist, who can also put it on the floor if the closeout overplayed by the defense. He is supposed to stretch the floor and shoot above 40% from three and average at least 9-10 pts. He is golden together with the starters and almost useless with guys like Grant, Patterson, Huestis, etc, where none of them can draw defenders.
    Roberson could make a lot of sense coming off the bench and be a rebounding, defending, hustle-type player against bench units, where his weakness on offense wont be felt as much.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIG EDDIE View Post
    A couple of thoughts I have so far, with the team beeing 6-7:

    - Every expert says that its not easy to figure things out with 3 star players coming together and I believe that. I also think, that there is an ideal style of play and ideal shot distribution for each team. This team can only be really good if Melo is their 3rd best scorer, gets the 3rd most shots on the team. He should be limited to mostly catch and shoot 3s, some iso plays where the 1st and 2nd play gets broken up and the shotclock is running down and you have to "force" up a decent shot, plus some go to plays where he is purely with the bench unit on the floor. Realistically that should put him on around 18 pts/game on a better shooting % than he has now.

    - Abrines is the real key to OKCs success and I dont know why most people dont see it. Roberson neutralizes any advantage that we have on the offensive end with our star players. He is a superb defensive guy, but he doesnt fit in this starting five really. Plus, Abrines NEEDS to play with the starters in order to be successful. He is not a go to guy, he is mainly a catch and shoot 3pt specialist, who can also put it on the floor if the closeout overplayed by the defense. He is supposed to stretch the floor and shoot above 40% from three and average at least 9-10 pts. He is golden together with the starters and almost useless with guys like Grant, Patterson, Huestis, etc, where none of them can draw defenders.


    Roberson could make a lot of sense coming off the bench and be a rebounding, defending, hustle-type player against bench units, where his weakness on offense wont be felt as much.
    The advanced metrics show that we are better with Andre in the starting lineup than with Alex. Yes the offense is better with Alex but the defense rating tanks. I agree that Alex could help us more if he could actually get going and hit shots. Even just having him out there helps spacing. However having Andre in the offense is and has always been one of our best lineups.

    Currently we haven’t really seen any significant minutes with Andre playing with the bench. I guess it depends on what billy does does from here on out. If the second unit is Melo playing isoball then it makes sense to have Andre out there since no one else besides Melo will touch the ball.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knrstz View Post
    The advanced metrics show that we are better with Andre in the starting lineup than with Alex. Yes the offense is better with Alex but the defense rating tanks. I agree that Alex could help us more if he could actually get going and hit shots. Even just having him out there helps spacing. However having Andre in the offense is and has always been one of our best lineups.

    Currently we havenít really seen any significant minutes with Andre playing with the bench. I guess it depends on what billy does does from here on out. If the second unit is Melo playing isoball then it makes sense to have Andre out there since no one else besides Melo will touch the ball.

    If you want less Melo Iso then we should be playing PG13 with the second unit. Melo will take a backseat to Russ on the first team. A strong point guard has always been able to control Melo. Felton will not be able to do that. Playing Melo with the starters and PG with the bench is probably better for the overall ball movement in the game.

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